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could recording experts give me an opinion

Just cant get this problem fixed.....

http://studio-central.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=60350

10 comments:

F-Jam Alert said...

First let me say that every time you post a link Mark, I have to go in and fix it. You have to use the icons to post a link in this blog. There is an icon at the top of the message editor for pasting in urls. It doesn't work to just pase in the link, like you've been doing. Your links only work because I go in after you post and fix them.

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Ok now about your mic problem.

I don't know much about the micromics. I recommended the sm57s remember?

I never heard anyone refer to recording audio as a perfect note... Audio is recorded as wave form not notes... At lease visually in sonar that is.

I use sonar to record my drums, but I only use the sm57s.

If you used the FTP server here and sent up the .cwb I might make more progress in giving you advice, than to go by what you are saying. The way you are describing this is kinda strange to me, so I can't really say much.

Never heard of audio being referred to as "a perfect note" visually. Not sure what that could mean. Near clipping is not bad. That's actually what you want. Just under clipping. You don't want it to clip, but be just under it or "near clipping". So that part throws me too.

Are you suing the VU meters to set your input levels? You know you are supposed to use the input meters right? There should be an input meter for each channel.

Before I ever start the recorder I can set the levels of the inputs so they don't peak.

How about monitoring your mic inputs with headphones on? You should be able to get an idea how a mic sounds through your headphones. If you know what you are doing you can hit the drum and hear it in your phones.

You are using equipment I am not familiar with so I can only speak in general terms. All of this equipment uses the same physics, so what I do, you should be able to do as well.

Did you read the manuals for your new gear?

scotsman said...

I see what you mean about the links....in future.....When i wrote the perfect note what i was meaning was the perfect hit of the tom...1 hit left the perfect, non clipping wave file in Sonar.
The guy gave me cash back for the 2 mics, but i was thinking if i try a little more to get them to work it'll save me money, but i've asked everywhere, they need phantom power, which my alesis has to work so 10 mins and i'll email it to you.
I'll set it up and hit the toms a few times, save it as a cwb and email it to you shortly.

cheers

Keeper said...

Ummm you never addressed the input VU meters Mark. I asked about them, but your response didn't mention them. It's an important part of setting your input levels. What about that?

You keep talking about the mics needing phantom power. Why would this be part of your problem if you have preamps that supply it? If they need phantom power and your alesis is supplying it, then why would this be part of the problem? I don't see phantom power as being part of your problem.

If you are not using VU meters (visual meters to set the input level in from your preamps), then I would site that as your problem rather than any phantom power issue.


Here is the only way phantom power would be an issue:


If the mic needed phantom power and you were not supplying it, the level would be extremely low and may not register at all.

Phantom power does not cause mic levels to be too hot. The setting of the preamp does...

Are you recording at 44 kHZ? 16 bit?

This input level meter/indicator is critical to this, so I would ask you to concentrate on that rather than phantom power as the culprit. Phantom power would only cause levels to be too low (from lack of it), not too hot.

What I've been told about phantom power is that it uses special circuits. A mic that does not use phantom power will ignore phantom power because the circuits are not in the same place as one that needs it.

The sm57 would totally ignore phantom power for instance because the circuits needed for it are not present.

Keeper said...

Don't confuse some experience with expertise Mark. You said you wanted an "expert" to answer these questions. Well I don't think there are any "experts" here. You might get someone to talk to you who is "experienced", but if there is an "expert" on drum micing, and specifically with your equipment, I'd like to know about them...

I have "experience", with sonar, and the SM57s. The rest I do not. I have some experience with phantom power. Expert NO!

You gotta learn to choose your words better... LOL And surely lay off the mushrooms when doing this... hehehehe


The way this works for me is I hit a drum, and look at the input level indicator for that drum. If it's very low I turn up the gain on the mic preamp until the indicator on sonar comes up. The preamp changes the input indicator. The preamp is what does the settings. Sonar just indicates. When I first got into it I was looking for sonar to change the input. SOnar does not change the input levels. It only indicates it. The preamp changes it. I change the gain on that mic channel and it changes the input indicator on sonar. You have to do this visually before you ever hit record.

I even sit down behind the kit and play the hardest that I will play for this track and look for the peak lights in the input indicators on sonar. If a channel is clipping I back down the gain on the preamp on that channel until it stops.

Now if you've never been doing this, it's at the very heart of your problem.

Phantom power will only be a "too low" problem, not "too high". The preamp gain control is what makes it too hot.

scotsman said...

When i hit the tom right now those meters go right up from blue but miss the red....right now...i take it those are the input meters which i thought were called levels, i never new the real name for them are we talking about the same thing..

scotsman said...

I also thought as long as the wave file was within the track and not touching the top or bottom of the audio track then it wouldn't clip.

scotsman said...

i'm on that advice now.........thanks

Keeper said...

scotsman said...

When i hit the tom right now those meters go right up from blue but miss the red....right now...i take it those are the input meters which i thought were called levels, i never new the real name for them are we talking about the same thing..
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Well you notice in my posts here I stopped calling it a meter. That is a habit I've had to kick since the old days when they actually were divided up in dbs. They are called indicators. Input indicators. You have green and red, to my rekoning. You call it blue, I call it green. Yes you have to set those to go well into the green/blue and not hit the red. If you've done that and there is still clipping then indeed there is something else going on.

In the manual for the micromics, it tells you they are phantom power?

I'm told non-phantom power mics will ignore phantom power, but have not checked this myself. But them I asked myself..... if this were true why would we need the switches to turn it off an on? If it ignores it why not just supply it all the time?

My Fostex Model 450 has switch for on and off phantom power, as does my us-122. If as I'm told at guitar center, they ignore it why do we need a switch to turn it off?

So anyhow look in your book and see that they say for sure they are powered mics (the micromics).

You could also turn the phantom power off and try the recording.

All of the micromics act the same way do they? Not just one problem mic, but all of the micromics?

scotsman said...

I posted that before i read yours.....what i meant was earlier was some here have been recording a lot longer than me, so all avdive is welcome........

I took the mics one seemed ok with the levels, the other...well i had the gain down as far as it would go and it was still clipping, i swapped the mics and it was the same on the other input, just kept clipping even with no gain....mic could be damaged...

The sm57, bass mic and o\h all work perfectly but they dont use phantom power. So more mics req for the toms.
I know the sm57 is the best but for now i maybe have to go cheaper with the tom mics, i'm watching 2 on ebay..Audix-D2 sitting at a tenner is a good mic so i've read but these 2 seem...done in...i've asked on sonars forum and they couldn't help me so move on...

shrooms.... no no no....lsd and the search for god....lol

scotsman said...

i have the manual and phantom power is needed and with it off it records nothing and the meters show nothing